jurisdiction to get preapproval be from the federal government to get changing for the federal laws before those laws could be put into effect. host: you said it with a brooder law and that section five is a brooder part of it. guest: everyone sees it a critical part of the law. it puts the burden of proof on the state pfs before 1965, the courts or congress striked down oppression laws like in alabama, and al would ignore those rulings or implement a new measure. so this was a deter represent mechanism and there is nothing like it that is aiken to section 5. host: how crucial to do you see it as the major framework? guest: it was in 1965. it was needed because of the discrimination in the south. times have changed greatly. today it is no longer needed. if discrimination occurs, it can be remedied through section 2. that is a nationwide permanent pro vision that bans discrimination in the voting context. section 5 was put in place because local and state governments were trying to evade court decrees because it is no longer needed because there are there hasn't been any evasion in decades.